Interview Overview
On September 30, popular podcaster Lex Fridman hosted a deep-dive interview with Pavel Durov, the founder and CEO of Telegram, which spanned over four and a half hours. The dialogue provided insights into a diverse array of subjects, including the contentious themes of censorship, governmental influence, the cryptocurrency landscape, and the broader implications for digital freedom.
Bitcoin and Financial Freedom
During their comprehensive exchange, Durov expressed his strong conviction that Bitcoin could eventually reach a staggering valuation of $1 million. He recounted an anecdote from 2013, when he invested roughly $2 million in Bitcoin, underscoring his commitment to the cryptocurrency even as its price plummeted the following year. Durov articulated his belief in Bitcoin’s essential qualities, emphasizing its potential as a form of financial freedom that is immune to confiscation or political censorship.
“For me, Bitcoin represents how money should function, as it cannot be seized or censored,” he stated, affirming that it was this investment that allowed him to maintain a high standard of living, including private flights and luxury accommodations.
Telegram’s Blockchain Innovations
The conversation also delved into Telegram’s innovative blockchain-oriented features. Durov highlighted how the platform recently became notable for enabling users to own their digital identities and usernames through NFTs and smart contracts. He discussed the inception of Telegram’s blockchain, known as TON, which was initiated by the company in 2018 and 2019 as they aimed to embrace blockchain technology as a vital enabler of freedom.
However, complications arose when the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission classified the native tokens of TON, known as Grams, as securities, forcing Telegram to hand the project over to the open community. Durov now leverages Toncoins to sustain Telegram’s operations, allowing advertising revenues to be paid in TON tokens, with revenue shares flowing back to the platform.
Telegram Gifts and Financial Strategies
Durov elaborated on the concept of Telegram gifts, describing them as modern, socially meaningful NFTs that seamlessly integrate into the vast Telegram ecosystem. He differentiated them from traditional NFTs, asserting that they provide a more relevant social utility by being visibly attached to a user’s identity within the app.
He remarked on the surge of influencers joining Telegram to sell such gifts, referencing Snoop Dogg’s remarkable sale of $12 million worth within just 30 minutes.
Throughout the interview, Fridman pressed Durov on Telegram’s financial strategies, revealing that he personally invested millions to ensure that the platform remained free from intrusive, data-driven advertising practices. Durov shared that Telegram was only able to turn a profit in 2024 through innovative measures, rather than adopting questionable practices like harvesting user data – a common tactic among many of its competitors.
While Telegram’s profitability has improved, Durov candidly admitted that he has lost more than he gained from his investments in the platform. He turned to a subscription model in 2022, which resulted in 15 million users signing up for paid services and projected earnings from premium subscriptions to reach about $500 million by 2025. Revenue is also supplemented by a minor commission on third-party developers creating bots and mini-apps, which Durov believes adds value by enhancing user experiences rather than generating substantial income.
Advocacy for Privacy and Freedom of Expression
Fridman characterized Durov as a tenacious advocate for privacy and freedom of expression, highlighting the pressures he has faced from various governments, particularly during disputes with Russian authorities in the 2010s and an arrest in Paris in 2024. Durov detailed ongoing conflicts with French officials, who urged him to suppress support groups tied to political candidates in Moldova and Romania. He maintained that these actions were in direct conflict with his ethos, regardless of external pressures.
The tension surrounding the political implications of Telegram’s operation has led to contrasting views on Durov’s role, with some Russian electoral monitors accusing the platform of obstructing its services for civic engagement, even as high-profile reports continue to scrutinize its connections with governmental bodies such as the FSB.
